[13:00] Hermes (prinzensaft): walks to the lectern and gets ready for his talk
[13:00] se dirige vers le pupitre et se prépare pour son discours
[13:00] Hermes (prinzensaft): coughs. are you ready?
[13:00] toux. es-tu prêt?
[13:01] Hermes (prinzensaft): I know it's useless but let me ask you to please NOT click on the board
[13:01] Je sais que c'est inutile mais permettez-moi de vous demander de ne pas cliquer sur le tableau
[13:01] Aυţυмη нαuι (autumnraineskye) is online.
[13:01] Yoshida Ahiratsu (serenity.spiritor) is online.
[13:01] Davor O'Donnell (davoroflaura): (( very sorry ))
[13:01] ((vraiment désolé))
[13:02] Hermes (prinzensaft): Welcome to this talk about the Standardization of the Gorean Calendar.
[13:02] Bienvenue à ce discours sur la standardisation du calendrier gorean.
[13:02] Hermes (prinzensaft): If you can't imagine what it's about, don't worry! the word is awful, but the practical implications are quite concrete
[13:02] Si vous ne pouvez pas imaginer de quoi il s'agit, ne vous inquiétez pas! Le mot est horrible, mais les implications pratiques sont assez concrètes
[13:02] Hermes (prinzensaft): As you may know, I had proposed the standardization of the Gorean Calendar first at the last En'kara fair at the Sardar mountains, exposing the problem and proposing to proceed in four steps, each time at one of the four big fairs of the Gorean year: at En'kara, En'Var, Se'Kara and Se'Var.
[13:02] Comme vous le savez peut-être, j'avais d'abord proposé la standardisation du calendrier goéen à la dernière foire d'E'kara aux montagnes de Sardar, exposant le problème et proposant de procéder en quatre étapes, à chaque fois à l'une des quatre grandes foires de l'année gorean: à En'kara, en'var, Se'kara et Se'var.
[13:03] Hermes (prinzensaft): The next meeting took place at the En'Var solstice in the City Hall of Isfahan. At that meeting I again exposed the problem and proposed a solution that was greeted unanimously by all present.
[13:03] La prochaine réunion a eu lieu au solstice en'var dans la mairie d'Isfahan. Lors de cette réunion, j'ai de nouveau exposé le problème et proposé une solution qui a été accueilli à l'unanimité par tous les présents.
[13:03] Hermes (prinzensaft): We are assembled here today for the follow-up meeting and are delighted to have among us Fogaban who has created and maintains the Gorean Cave website.
[13:03] Nous sommes assemblés ici aujourd'hui pour la réunion de suivi et sommes ravis d'avoir parmi nous Fogaban qui a créé et maintient le site Web de Gorean Cave.
[13:03] Hermes (prinzensaft): For those who have not been present at the last two meeting, I will briefly repeat the problem of the beginning of the Gorean Year in terms of Earth dates and the proposed solution. The question of the year we are in right now, so the one about the conversion between Contasta Ar count and Gregorian calendar count of years will be treated tomorrow at 11 am slt.
[13:03] Pour ceux qui n'ont pas été présents lors de la dernière réunion, je répéterai brièvement le problème du début de l'année goréenne en termes de dates de terre et de solution proposée. La question de l'année dans laquelle nous nous trouvons en ce moment, donc celle de la conversion entre Contasta AR Count et Grégorian Calendar Count of Years sera traitée demain à 11 h SLT.
[13:04] Hermes (prinzensaft): The whole problem occurred because we prepared a calendar for our Dance company, the Sereem Kajiri Dancers of Isfahan that you see over there on the wall for the current Gorean year. We were confronted with a problem: when exactly does the Gorean Year start? We asked the organizers of the En'Kara fair when there will be a New Year celebration, but they did not plan one and did not know either at which exact date the new Gorean year would start.
[13:04] Freya Hedwig (sparklingjewelri) is online.
[13:04] Hermes (prinzensaft): We know for certain that the Gorean year starts at the En'Kara Equinox.
"In Ar, as in most cities in the northern hemisphere, the new year begins with the vernal equinox." (Magicians of Gor Book 25 Page 106)
[13:05] Lib (liberace57) is online.
[13:05] Hermes (prinzensaft): But when exactly is that equinox? When day and night have the same length, on the Northern hemisphere of Gor. So far, so simple.
But what is the Earth date of this event?
[13:05] Kiki Silverclaw-Jacobson (elphaba.jinxing): @
[13:05] Hermes (prinzensaft): The Free Gorean Calendar starts the Gorean year on March 21 as you see here on the board, and the Gorean Snaffle Calendar does the same.
[13:05] Hermes (prinzensaft): please ask questions at the end
[13:06] Kiki Silverclaw-Jacobson (elphaba.jinxing): *nods*
[13:06] zCS # [Mod] MonaElaisa Resident switched from [RP] to [OOC].
[13:06] Hermes (prinzensaft): Fogaban starts the year on the 20th of March arguing that the spring equinox will always start on that day on Earth until 2044.
[13:06] Kiki Silverclaw-Jacobson (elphaba.jinxing) smiles
[13:06] Hermes (prinzensaft): https://www.thegoreancave.com/tmm/calendar_20th.pp
[13:06] Hermes (prinzensaft): The Gorean Measurement Converter, on the other hand, that is used by most of us, has the Gorean year start on the 19th of March.
[13:06] Madeleine Paxson (mallairian) is offline.
[13:07] Hermes (prinzensaft): Let me say something about the Earth background of these dates:
[13:07] Hermes (prinzensaft): These are indeed the three days on which the equinox CAN IN PRINCIPLE happen on EARTH, although the 20th of March is the central date.
[13:07] Hermes (prinzensaft): It is a fact that the Equinox on Earth currently occurs on the 20th of March, and that over many years until 2043.
[13:07] Hermes (prinzensaft): An Earth equinox on March 19th happened last time in 1796 CE and will happen next time in 2044. The 21st of March is a bit more frequent, it happened most recently in 2007 and will happen next in 2102.
[13:08] Hermes (prinzensaft): So the 20th of March is the standard day for the beginning of spring on Earth's Northern hemisphere.
But why should the timing of the equinox be exactly the same on Gor as it is on Earth?
[13:08] Hermes (prinzensaft): Let me mention some astronomical and calendarial facts that help understand the situation:
[13:08] Hermes (prinzensaft): 1. The basic fact: Gor is counter-Earth
The Priest-Kings brought the planet Gor into the solar system two million years ago from another star system:
"[Tarl Cabot:] My father [...] said, from what he could learn from the Initiates, who claimed to serve as the intermediairies of Priest-Kings to men, that the planet Gor had originally been a satellite of a distant sun, in one of the fantastically remote Blue Galaxies. It was moved by the science of the Priest-Kings several times in its history, seeking again and again a new star." (Book 1, ch.2)
[13:09] Hermes (prinzensaft): They placed it so that Gor and Earth would always be on opposite sides of the sun.
Gor is therefore also called Counter-Earth. The fact that Gor is always hidden behind the sun from an Earth perspective is also called the sun-shield in the books:
[13:09] Velniar Esharham is offline.
[13:09] Hermes (prinzensaft): "That", he said with animation, "is the Theory of the Sun Shield." He added, "That is why I like to think of the planet as the Counter-Earth, not only because of its resemblance to our native world, but because, as a matter of fact, it is placed as a counterpoise to the Earth. It has the same plane of orbit and maintains its orbit in such a way as always to keep The Central Fire between it and its planetary sister, our Earth, even though this necessitates occasional adjustments in its speed of revolution. [...] Any power that is capable of moving a planet - and I believe the Priest-Kings possess this power - is capable of effecting adjustments in the motion of the planet, such adjustments as might allow it to use the sun indefinitely as a concealing shield." (Book 1, ch.2)
[13:10] Hermes (prinzensaft): Now, if we take it as a fact that Gor and Earth are always on opposite sides of the sun (or Lar-Torvis), such that neither planet can ever see the other, this has some pretty straightforward AND STRICT implications.
[13:10] Hermes (prinzensaft): 1. The orbit
[13:10] Hermes (prinzensaft): * The speed of a planet or other object only depends on its distance to the central Fire, NOT on its mass. The closer an object gets to the sun, the faster it must turn around it.
According to Kepler's second law, the speed is indirectly proportional to the square root of the radius. v = square root of (g x Mass of the sun / r)
[13:11] Hermes (prinzensaft): * Another hard astronomical fact: Planets do not orbit on circles but on ellipses that may be more or less close to circles. Earth and Gor are sometimes closer, sometimes further from the sun.
[13:12] Hermes (prinzensaft): What may surprise at first is that the Earth is closest to the sun in Northern Winter and further away in summer, but this is a happy fact indeed (at least for the Northern hemisphere), as we will see.
[13:12] Hermes (prinzensaft): On this picture, which has much information, just look at the blue planet first which is Earth.
[13:12] Hermes (prinzensaft): It is 147 million km from the sun on Jan 3 (the so-called Perihelion, when it's closest to the sun) and
152 million km from the sun on the 4th of July (the so-called Aphelion when it's furthest from the sun).
[13:13] Hermes (prinzensaft): So on average, Gor and Earth are approximately 150 Million km from the sun, a distance that also defines the Astronomical Unit AU, and move with a speed of almost 30 km/s. Mars for example has an orbit (much more elliptical than that of Gor or Earth) at 1.5 AU from the sun and moves with an average speed of only 24 km/s.
[13:13] Hermes (prinzensaft): When a planet is closest to the sun, this is called Perihelion, when it's furthest away, Aphelion.
[13:13] Hermes (prinzensaft): These dates are NOT pertinent for the seasons. In fact, Earth is closest to the sun in winter, on 3rd of January, at 147.3 million kilometers distance. At Aphelion, the furthest point, Earth is 152.1 million km from the sun. Earth thus oscillates 3% of its distance around its mean distance of c. 150 Mio km from the sun (this is much closer to a circle than Mars that has 19% oscillation).
[13:14] Hermes (prinzensaft): This has an impact on the position of Gor.
[13:14] Hermes (prinzensaft): For when a planet is closer to the sun, it must move faster.
[13:14] Hermes (prinzensaft): Earth moves at 30.3 km/s at Perihelion and 29.3 at Aphelion. The difference in velocity between the two points is only 1 km per second, but in a month this amounts to 2.64 million km.
[13:15] Hermes (prinzensaft): In fact, the Earth moving slower from Spring to Autumn equinox when it is farther from the sun, explains why this "half" astronomical year has 184 days, while the winter "half" takes only 181.
[13:15] Hermes (prinzensaft): Those who love summer may therefore prefer the Nothern hemispheres of Gor or Earth for there summer lasts some days longer.
[13:16] Hermes (prinzensaft): Those who prefer the cold, should move to the Southern hemisphere - but much further down than Isfahan, for here it's quite tropical!
[13:16] Hermes (prinzensaft): Now imagine Gor being on the SAME ORBIT as Earth, just on the opposite side of the sun. It would mean that in Winter time, Earth would be closer to the sun than Gor is to the Central Fire. Earth would move faster, and Gor slower than average. Earth would move over 3 million km further than Gor within a month. This would mean that Gor would step out from behind the sun and become visible.
[13:16] Hermes (prinzensaft): This is the reason why Gor and Earth cannot move on the same orbit! This is the reason why both planets must always be at the SAME DISTANCE from Lar Torvis.
[13:17] Hermes (prinzensaft): In fact, it is very difficult to maintain Gor on exactly the opposite side of the sun. The other planets, in particular the big ones like Jupiter, but also passing comets divert a planet from its relatively stable path. There is no absolute symmetric solution to the influences of these planets and passing comets for both Earth and Gor. So there must be constant interventions by the Priest-Kings to maintain Gor on its orbit opposite the Earth.
[13:17] Hermes (prinzensaft): However, the Priest-Kings being highly intelligent and efficient, they will have chosen a set-up for Gor that minimizes these interventions. So it is to be assumed that the basic orbit of Gor MIRRORS that of Earth, such that it is always at the same distance from the sun. For in that case, the planets will not move with different speed and thus step out of their zone of invisibility.
[13:18] Hermes (prinzensaft): Gor moves NOT on Earth's orbit, but on one that mirrors the Earth orbit, such that Gor is always at the same distance to the sun as the Earth. This does not contradict the books, but is consistent with them. The above quoted passage states that Gor "has the same plane of orbit", it does not state that Gor has the same orbit!
[13:18] Hermes (prinzensaft): A word about this "plane": All planets orbit in the same plane, but since Gor was brought into the solar system, this is not obvious. It was such arranged by the Priest-Kings, praised be they!
[13:19] Hermes (prinzensaft): That's it about the orbit. Are there questions so far?
[13:20] Hermes (prinzensaft): If not I continue with point 2. Length of the Gorean Year
[13:20] Hermes (prinzensaft): Because Gor and Earth are always on opposite sides of the sun and a year is the time it takes to turn around the sun, the Gorean year must have the exact same length as the Earth year.
[13:20] Hermes (prinzensaft): In addition, the Gorean year has the same number of days and months as the Earth year. Why is that? It is quite simple to see:
[13:20] Hermes (prinzensaft): Each Gorean month has 5 weeks of 5 days and is followed by a Passage Hand, equally of 5 days.
That makes 30 days, and according to the calendar of Ar there are 12 months, so we get 30 times 12 = 360 days.
In addition, the last Passage Hand is followed by the Waiting Hand, usually of 5 days which gives us 365 days a year, just like on Earth.
[13:21] Hermes (prinzensaft): From this it follows that the length of a day on Gor is identical to the length of a day on Earth: 24 hours = 20 ahn.
[13:21] Hermes (prinzensaft): To state the same fact differently: If a day on Gor were shorter than an Earth day, there would have to be more than 365 days in a Gorean year.
[13:22] Hermes (prinzensaft): Now, unfortunately, but quite naturally, a year does not have exactly 365 days or any - a year is not an integer multiple of a day, for the rotation of a planet around itself is not directly related to its rotation around the sun.
Earth and Gor take 365 days and c. 6 hours to turn once around the Central Fire.
[13:23] Hermes (prinzensaft): To account for this, sometimes, in average every 4 yours, a sixth day is added to the Waiting Hand, just like in the leap years on Earth, to compensate the almost 6 hours that the orbit is longer than 365 days.
[13:23] Hermes (prinzensaft): "Every few years, as necessitated, an additional day is inserted into the calendar, at the end of the waiting hand." (Swordsmen of Gor Book 29 Page 465)
[13:23] Hermes (prinzensaft): A problem for us (in SL Gor) is that these years do not seem to happen on a regular basis ("as necessitated") and do thus not coincide with the Earth leap years that happen every fourth year, which then has 366 days.
[13:24] Hermes (prinzensaft): Under these conditions the beginning of the Gorean Year shifts a lot around the 20th of March, maybe even further than the 19th or 21st.
[13:24] Hermes (prinzensaft): Hence the second proposal to add the additional day in the Waiting Hand every 4 years, exactly when there is a leap year on Earth - so next time in 2028 /10'179 C.A.
[13:25] Kaysie Michigan is offline.
[13:25] Hermes (prinzensaft): Any questions to this part? I hope I haven't lost you all!
[13:25] Victoria Forstander (evavalentino) is online.
[13:25] Victoria Forstander (evavalentino) entered chat range (9.49 m).
[13:25] Hermes (prinzensaft): 3. The Gorean equinox
[13:26] Hermes (prinzensaft): If on a location north or south of the equator the position of the Sun changes over the course of a year, creating the seasons, this happens because the planet's rotational axis is not perpendicular to its orbit around the Sun.
[13:26] Hermes (prinzensaft): We call this a planet's obliquity or tilt. The Earth's obliquity is currently 23.44 degrees.
The obliquity or axial tilt is calculated as the angle between the rotational axis and the orbital axis. The orbital axis is perpendicular (at a right angle) to the planet's orbital plane.
That orbital plane is rather similar to all planets of the solar system, all the planets in the solar system move in the same direction in approximately the same plane.
[13:26] Kaysie Michigan is online.
[13:27] Hermes (prinzensaft): The Earth's tilt against this plane is very stable and does not change significantly. It fluctuates between 22 and 24 degrees over periods of about 41,000 years.
[13:27] Hermes (prinzensaft): This is not the case for other planets. Mars‘ inclination seems to have been chaotic, fluctuating between 0 and 60 degrees.
[13:27] Hermes (prinzensaft): However, it is quite possible that in this respect we can also rely on the Priest Kings, the masters of gravitation, to have set up Gors’ axis of rotation corresponding to that of the Earth and thus stably.
[13:27] Hermes (prinzensaft): As we know, seasons do occur on Gor just like on Earth at a certain distance from the equator, and NOT to a CONSIDERABLY lesser or larger degree. In fact, Book 1 mentions this tilt and it is stated to be a bit less than that of the Earth:
[13:28] Hermes (prinzensaft): "The angle of its [Gor's] axis was somewhat sharper than the Earth's, but not enough to prevent its having a glorious periodicity of seasons." (Book 1, ch. 3 - The Tarn)
[13:28] Hermes (prinzensaft): We may thus assume that Gor's tilt is as stable as Earth's and should thus range somewhat between 20 and 23 degrees. It was probably installed by the Priest-Kings as well, for it is far too improbable that planets have approximately the same tilt and the same tilt stability.
[13:28] Hermes (prinzensaft): What interests us here, however, is not the amount of the tilt, but its ORIENTATION.
[13:29] Hermes (prinzensaft): For the summer solstice occurs when the planet's northern hemisphere is TILTED TOWARDS THE SUN.
[13:29] Hermes (prinzensaft): Now the orientation of the tilt is also, like the angle of the tilt, quite stable over time and does not significantly change over one year. It will thus equally apply to the Se'Var solstice and the two equinoxes (in fact, It always points to the Polar star on Earth, no matter the time of the year).
[13:29] Hermes (prinzensaft): If a planet on the other side of the sun is to have a summer solstice at the same time, its rotational axis must equally be tilted towards the sun, which means that it is tilted in the opposite direction. Looking at the picture, just pick out the June stolstice which occurs for Earth (blue) on the left side, while Gor (in orange) finds itself on the opposite side of Lar-Torvis at the same distance. What we are talking about now is the orientation of the axis towards the sun, indicating there by a slim line crossing the planet.
[13:31] Hermes (prinzensaft): So how do we know that the March equinox of Earth happens at exactly the same time as the En'Kara equinox on Gor? How do we know that the orientation of Gor's tilt is exactly opposite to that of the Earth?
[13:31] Hermes (prinzensaft): We always implicitly assume that spring starts on the Gorean Northern hemisphere when it starts on Earth's Northern hemisphere. But on which grounds?
[13:31] Hermes (prinzensaft): In order to check this, we have to compare the seasons when someone is taken from Earth and brought to Gor.
[13:32] Hermes (prinzensaft): i. Tarl Cabot's first trip to Gor
Indeed, when Tarl Cabot was abducted the first time, it was February on Earth and a couple of weeks later - when he had absolved his first training in Ko-ro-ba and was sent to Ar to steal its Home Stone, it was the time of the Planting Feast, hence early in springtime. We may thus conclude that the seasons are at least more or less in line on both planets' Northern hemispheres.
[13:32] Hermes (prinzensaft): But what do we know about the time it takes to get from Earth to Gor? Even light needs over 16 minutes to travel that distance. The easiest way for a manned spaceship would be to get off one planet and hang around in space for 6 months. Currently, the fastest crewed terrestrial spacecraft would take about as long, more than half a year, to travel that distance. Even if we assume that the Priest-Kings have much faster devices for space travel, the journey should still take days, even weeks.
[13:33] Hermes (prinzensaft): ii. Tarl Cabot's second trip to Gor
[13:33] Hermes (prinzensaft): Book 2 starts with a surprising remark by Tarl Cabot in ch. 2 - Return to Gor: "Once again, I, Tarl Cabot, strode the green fields of Gor. I awakened naked in the wind-swept grass [...]"
[13:33] Hermes (prinzensaft): He left Earth in February, amidst the snowy White Mountains. And he lands near Ko-ro-ba in green fields.
[13:34] Hermes (prinzensaft): The greening of fields usually appears not before mid March. It is not clear when in February Tarl Cabot left for the second time, but it is not excluded that it was late in that month. So the space travel would have taken 2-3 weeks at least, if not 4 or 5. This is confirmed by the following lines:
[13:34] Muse Steele (muse.triellis) is offline.
[13:34] Hermes (prinzensaft): "I rose slowly to my feet, my fibers alive in the wind, my hair torn by its blasts, my muscles aching and rejoicing in their first movements in perhaps weeks, for I had again entered that silver disk in the White Mountains which was the ship of the Priest-Kings, used for the Voyages of Acquisition, and, in entering, had fallen unconscious. In that state, as once long before, I had come to this world." (Book 2, ch.2)
[13:34] Hermes (prinzensaft): The following reports confirm the impression that we are quite advanced in the year, with plants already growing abundantly:
[13:35] Hermes (prinzensaft): "In the distance I could see some patches of yellow, the Ka-la-na groves that dot the fields of Gor. Far to my left I saw a splendid field of Sa-Tarna, bending beautifully in the wind, that tall yellow grain that forms a staple in the Gorean diet." (book 2, ch.2)
[13:35] Drew Barnard entered chat range (17.96 m).
[13:35] Hermes (prinzensaft): Only the relatively cold temperatures with icy rain indicate an early moment in springtime:
"[...] with the lightning, the storm descended, fierce cold torrents of icy rain whipped by the wind. In a moment, I was drenched in the icy water."
[13:35] Hermes (prinzensaft): And in fact, winter cereals like wheat or, on Gor, Sa-Tarna, green first, so we suppose that Tarl approaches the destroyed city of Ko-ro-ba mid to end of March 10'117 C.A. or 1966 (about this date see tomorrow).
[13:36] Hermes (prinzensaft): iii. The Priest-Kings
[13:36] Hermes (prinzensaft): I would further hold that the Gorean equinox happens at exactly the same day as on Earth without having found conclusive evidence of this in the books for now (if anybody finds one, I am grateful to share!).
[13:37] Hermes (prinzensaft): The claim is founded on the observation that Gor is generally set up in accordance with Earth. Not only does it orbit always on the other side of Lar Torvis (same length of year), but it has the same rotation period (length of day), the same tilt (intensity of seasons), and that tilt must spin in the same periodicity as Earth's tilt (otherwise the seasons wouldn't be in line any more).
[13:37] Hermes (prinzensaft): This is a series of correspondances that beyond natural coincidence that display the will of the Priest-Kings to set up Gor as the Counter-Earth.
[13:37] ᴀᴍᴀʀɪꜱꜱᴀ ᴅᴇᴠᴇʀᴇᴜx (lycaonia.siren) is offline.
[13:38] Hermes (prinzensaft): It seems very plausible to assume that they also set the tilt and its orientation such that the seasons on the Northern hemispheres correspond, or in other words: that the days of equinox are the same.
[13:38] Hermes (prinzensaft): However, something the Priest-Kings left for us to do!
[13:38] Hermes (prinzensaft): However, even if the Priest-Kings perfectly aligned the tilts of Gor and Earth such that both planets have their spring equinoxes at the same moment, it doesn't mean that the Gorean year always starts on March 20, because unfortunately the occurrence of the additional 366th leap day is, according to book 29, irregular and therefore does not coincide with the regular leap days on Earth.
[13:39] Hermes (prinzensaft): These are the problems we encountered when setting up our calendar. We have finally adopted a pragmatic approach and set March 19th as the date of the new year 10'176 C.A.
[13:39] Hermes (prinzensaft): The reason for this is simply that this corresponds to the ‘Gorean Measurement Converter’, which has been and is widely used by the high castes of SL Gor, in particular by scribes and healers, to determine the Gorean dates in all relevant documents, from contracts to health examinations to slave papers.
[13:39] Hermes (prinzensaft): For the Goreans in the books, the conversion with Earth dates is not important, but it is for the Goreans in Second Life. Therefore I would think it is the duty of the scribes of SL Gor to decide on these matters in concertation with the other High Castes.
[13:40] Hermes (prinzensaft): If the Earth date of the Gorean New Year were to be universally defined (for example as the 20th of March) and the occurrence of the additional sixth day of the Waiting Hand were to be aligned with the Earth leap day that occurs every four years, a uniform, simple and stable conversion system would be in place.
[13:40] Hermes (prinzensaft): To conclude, the problems of incoherent and unstable conversion dates could be solved under two conditions:
[13:40] Hermes (prinzensaft): 1. fix the Earth date of the Gorean Equinox once and for all. The 20th of March would be the best date (but it would mean to adapt the Gorean converter for the future)
[13:41] Hermes (prinzensaft): 2. align the Gorean jump years (that add an additional 6th day in the Waiting Hand) with the jump years of Earth (that add the 29th of February). The next 366 day-year would then be in 2028.
[13:41] Hermes (prinzensaft): If you are interested in this debate, please feel free to contact me, the Khan of Isfahan (prinzensaft resident)
By the way I want to thank the Prince of Red Rock, my companion, dearly for having created this calendar with me!
Thank you for your attention!
[13:42] Hermes (prinzensaft): Well he ain't prince of Red Rock anymore, but still is prince of the Tashid...
[13:42] Hermes (prinzensaft): there is now some time left for asking questions and discussion
[13:43] Fogaban: @
[13:43] Jon Julius Ƭɛɼɼợɼ (fresh.peppermint) is offline.
[13:45] Hermes (prinzensaft): Yes, Fogaban?
[13:45] Iskander Jorgensson (dramirak) is offline.
[13:45] Fogaban: Did you say you are going to discuss the current year Contasta Ar this weekend?
[13:45] Hermes (prinzensaft): yes tomorrow
[13:45] Hermes (prinzensaft): it's less astronomical and demands just some book reading
[13:45] Fogaban: *nods*
[13:46] Hermes (prinzensaft): quite straightforward
[13:46] Fogaban: I think so
[13:46] Hermes (prinzensaft): I would think you agree with the results of these considerations and would also, like all the others, be in favor of fixing the start of the Gorean year on the 20th of March?
[13:47] Hermes (prinzensaft): The additional question is that of the leap year.
[13:47] Fogaban: I completely agree that, until what was it 2044, the new year is on the 20th
[13:47] Hermes (prinzensaft): on Earth.
[13:48] Kiki Silverclaw-Jacobson (elphaba.jinxing): *nods*
[13:48] zCS # [Mod] AaronDaegal Resident [RP] logged into the region.
[13:48] Hermes (prinzensaft): The basic question is if we allow us to suppose that it is on the same date on Gor
[13:49] Hermes (prinzensaft): For example you could say that well, he travels from Earth to Gor from winter do Spring, so the seasons are different
[13:49] Fogaban: Then we're all off by 6 months
[13:49] Hermes (prinzensaft): when there is winter in New Hampshire, there is spring around Ko-ro-ba
[13:49] Fogaban: not just one day
[13:49] Hermes (prinzensaft): not necessarily
[13:50] Hermes (prinzensaft): but could be some months apart
[13:51] Hermes (prinzensaft): I would still hold that spring equinox in Northern Gor occurs on the 20th of March
[13:51] Fogaban: Or ........ we could all just agree on what Google tells us as to when the vernal equinox ..... March 20th, until 2044
[13:51] Violet Thiessam (ayiranayo) is online.
[13:51] Hermes (prinzensaft): Googles tells us that for Earth
[13:51] Hermes (prinzensaft): Gor is another planet. It has its tilt oriented differently
[13:53] Hermes (prinzensaft): You need reasons to claim that the equinox on Gor happens at the same time it happens on Earth. You cannot just presuppose it.
[13:53] Fogaban: The books do not say anywhere that THIS specific date on Earth is THIS specific date on Gor .... believe me, I wish it was that plain. But it's not, so assumptions must me made. Pick a date and stick with it based on the best guess we can make
[13:54] Hermes (prinzensaft): exactly. That's what we are doing here. But it is not sufficent to repeat the earth equinox dates
[13:55] Hermes (prinzensaft): Does anyone here have contact with the builders of the Gorean measurement converter?
[13:55] Fogaban: I will be 84 in 2044 .... so, if I'm still around, I'll worry about changing the code on my website then *smiles*
[13:55] Drew Barnard chuckles
[13:56] Hermes (prinzensaft): Well, waiting for that glorious moment we healers and scribes and diplomats will not wait to adapt our converters
[13:57] Hermes (prinzensaft): which tell us the wrong date according to Fogaban who starts the year on the 20th while the converter does it on the 19th
[13:57] Odette Atheria is online.
[13:58] Violet Thiessam (ayiranayo) is offline.
[13:58] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Where is the converter located. Is it in world?
[13:58] Kiki Silverclaw-Jacobson (elphaba.jinxing): We perhaps need to get one created for us to use and share out to other castes?
[13:58] Hermes (prinzensaft): most of us use the Gorean measurement converter available on MP
[13:59] Fogaban is online.
[13:59] Hermes (prinzensaft): it's usually quite reliable, but has this one flaw
[14:00] Hermes (prinzensaft): IIt's time to end for me. I conclude that I will myself have to get into contact with the creators of this converter in order to get a workable instrument.
[14:00] Hermes (prinzensaft): We'll see about that in the next meeting at Se'Var. Is there already a place decided about a Se'Var scribe meeting?
[14:01] ꝀȺɌ (karisima.stein): I’m all for a simple, steady conversion. Gor can be a whirlwind, and having something we all agree on—and can implement would be a welcome shift.
[14:01] Jake Lane (slade.jestyr) entered chat range (9.66 m).
[14:01] Victoria Forstander (evavalentino): I'd love to know
[14:01] Abraham Jacobson (abrahamjacobs2): Not yet
[14:01] Abraham Jacobson (abrahamjacobs2): We need to discuss it
t
[14:02] Hermes (prinzensaft): Looks at the folks from Scimitars
[14:02] Hermes (prinzensaft): you always do things around Se'Var.... but... that's not up to me to decide
[14:03] Muse Steele (muse.triellis) is online.
[14:03] Hermes (prinzensaft): Thank you again for your attention and be assured, Kar, that we will have it!
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