Scribe Summit - Lecture 16: Map Making

 

[14:16] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Tal everyone, I'm Trygg Tyran of Oasis of Two Scimitars. This will not be a presentation by an expert. I am standing in for Victoria Forstander who was called away unexpectedly. I have to her notes and I will try to make some sense of them to present a short lesson on Map Making

[14:16] Hermes (prinzensaft) is online.

[14:16] ƈɨʟɨӼ Ӽʊռ (xunfu)  nods and waits

[14:16] Xunfu fr>en Nods and Waits

[14:19] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): I can't seem to get it to rezz

[14:20] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): This Mapmaking Class Talk given by Jarvis Quan:  many years ago along with notes from Ar the Salor  who spent many years as a map maker.

[14:20] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Tonight's class is on mapmakers and geographers in Gor.

I'm going to do this is three steps.

[14:21] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): First I'm going to talk about their role in Gor according to the books as I understand it.

[14:21] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): At this point let me make a clarification between a cartographer and a geographer....

[14:22] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Cartographers make the maps used, normally based on information provided by others...geographers explore the lands, and bring home the information for the Cartographers to use to create their maps.

[14:22] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Now in today's world, 

 If you want to know the population of a country, top imports exports things like that you can easily get such information off the INTERNET or from a public library (speaking of real life on earth of course.

[14:22] ƈɨʟɨӼ Ӽʊռ (xunfu): @

[14:24] ƈɨʟɨӼ Ӽʊռ (xunfu): i just wanted to know if cartographer and geographer is usually current to do both?

[14:24] Xunfu fr>en: I Just Wanted to Know If Cartographer and Geographer is usually Current to Do Both?

[14:24] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): On earth? Or in Gor?

[14:25] ƈɨʟɨӼ Ӽʊռ (xunfu): gor

[14:25] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): On Gor, no, they are close, as the creator of the lesson said, but not the same thing.

[14:26] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): cartograpahers are map makers

[14:26] ƈɨʟɨӼ Ӽʊռ (xunfu): yes, but can one personn learn both? to do both i mean, is it allowed?

[14:26] Xunfu fr>en: Yes, but can onen Learn Both? To do Both i mean, is it allowed?

[14:27] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): geographers study the landscape and share the information, but certain, I see no reason why one can't do both, provided the Head of Caste allows it"

[14:28] ƈɨʟɨӼ Ӽʊռ (xunfu): thanks sir.

[14:28] Xunfu fr>en: Thanks Sir.

[14:28] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): There was a time on Earth when this was not the case.

 Maps and guides were kept secret.

[14:29] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): For example every ship sailing the seas had a navigator.

 

The navigator had a "rutter" and graduated from a recognized school of navigators

a "rutter" represented the places the navigator been and how to get from point a to point b and the "rutter" was a very carefully and closely guarded secret.

Many navigators kept two rutters.

[14:29] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): One was placed to be easy to find but was deliberately full off all kinds of errors so if you stole it and used it, you're end up on a reef.

[14:30] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): The "real" one was kept in an extra special safe place and guarded with life of the navigator.

 The same was often true of non sea maps

 Routes to from cities were closely guarded secrets kept by merchants and warriors, secret paths were common, passages in and out of cities were also common but kept secret except for the main gates in and out.

[14:30] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): From Wikipedia "These notes were probably passed secretly within their profession ranks, from master to apprentice. Only a few of these Italian handbooks were made public, and even fewer have survived to this day."

[14:31] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): From Reddit ask Historians 

"At the very least he would have known about the existence of a landmass. As many know, Columbus landed in the Antilles, believing it to be Asia. The crucial fact that this was a new landmass was not widely accepted until Amerigo Vespucci was appointed the piloto mayor or "Navigation Chief" of Spain in 1508 and presented his idea that the Antilles and other islands were not an eastern edge of Asia, but rather an entirely new as yet undiscovered landmass.

[14:33] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Vespucci even coined the term"new world" in an earlier letter written by him to Lorenzo di Pier Francesco de' Medici in 1503. Medici died shortly thereafter. Now, I am not an expert on Da Vinci himself, but I can recall that the Medici family were prominent patrons of Da Vinci. Lorenzo the Magnificent was certainly a patron of Da Vinci. Amerigo himself was was employed by the Medici.

[14:33] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Therefore, even if nothing exists in Da Vinci's writings about the new world (I'm not sure if it does or not) we can be reasonably sure that the news of the discovery and acceptance of a new landmass had made its way to the top echelons of Italian society by 1503. Therefore, Da Vinci assuredly would have known of its existence before 1519 (by which time the Spanish had already reached the Pacific Ocean in 1513 - Vasco Nunez de Balboa having crossed the isthmus of Panama)."

[14:34] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): The reasons are obvious if we step out of the modern well ordered open world of Earth today and back into an era that required warfare and hand to hand combat survive.

: The home advantage in a battle was an immense one.

[14:35] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): The local warriors and citizens knew their way around

their city because they lived it each day.

: So if a stranger came to in attack, they could often melt away down side streets or warriors come out of nowhere without warning from some unexpected turn.

There were no street signs, no neat grids to follow.

If you have ever visited an ancient city you will see this today.

[14:35] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): A good example is Afghanistan whom Alexander the Great said could not be conquered to the caves and the hidden places

[14:36] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): So now back to Gor.

 What do we know?

 There is this quote

[14:36] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): It is illegal in many cities, incidentally, to take maps of the city out of the city. More than one fellow, too, has put himself in the quarries or on the bench of a galley for having been caught with such a map in his possession.

[Magicians of Gor - 388]

[14:37] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): So, it would seem that Goreans have the attitudes about maps that were common on Earth before our day.

: We know one subcaste of scribes was the mapmaker and one subcaste was a geographer.

[14:37] Hermes (prinzensaft): ok if anyone should be put on a galley for posting the map of Ti, it's not me but Trygg!

[14:38] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): I also have a map of Turia and Hochberg, if you are building a case

[14:38] Hermes (prinzensaft): ... or Victoria who is probably already there....

[14:38] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): I new there was a reason she wasn't here

[14:38] Violet Thiessam (ayiranayo) is online.

[14:39] Hermes (prinzensaft): nods...and sighs... cartographers lead a dangerrrous life... beware, Khalil!

[14:39] ƈɨʟɨӼ Ӽʊռ (xunfu) looks at hermes "i am well armed" smiles

[14:39] Xunfu fr>en Looks at Hermes "I am Well Armed" smiles

[14:40] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): From the descriptions, especially from "Explores of Gor" a geographer was not really what we think of today as a geographer but rather much more like an explorer or navigator of ancient earth.

 It was his job to keep careful notes and details of where some group had been, what local customs were.

 The map maker likely traveled with him and worked with him

he likely made the detail maps.

[14:41] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Mapmakers also likely traveled with warriors carrying the maps the warriors needed, consulting with the leadership of the warrior group, and making new maps whenever they ventured into new territory.

 It is my opinion (the author') that a mapmaker and geographer would likely be scribes somewhere more akin to warriors that to most other scribes.

[14:42] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Most likely, be necessity they have experience handling weapons, were used to traveling in rough conditions and were adventurers in their own right.

Think of an earth fellow like Cartier, Columbus, Stanley, Lewis and Clark

[14:42] ꝀȺɌ (karisima.stein): Aye, they are of the Scribes

[14:42] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): That type and not the fellow sitting in an office teaching high school kids.

 Much of Gor was completely unknown and geographers and map makers the ones who were actively working to fill in the blanks on the maps.

[14:42] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran) chuckles

[14:43] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Opinions expressed are those of the author

[14:43] Sholee Rajal is online.

[14:44] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): But mostly I expect they were jealous of their knowledge.

The greatest of these seem to have been Shaba from Explorers. Much of Gor was completely unknown and geographers and map makers the ones who were actively working to fill in the blanks on the maps.

[14:44] Hermes (prinzensaft) shouts: Long live the memory of Shaba!

[14:44] BB Arliss (busybee.ashbourne) is offline.

[14:44] Lysander Tyran is offline.

[14:44] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran) smiles "On his death he arranged for Tarl to be certain all his scrolls maps and information were delivered to the Sardar fairs, copies and distributed so all Gor could benefit from them.

 If you read the account, this was astonishing, wonderful, strange and greeted with wild joy by the scribes interested in such things.

[14:45] Hermes (prinzensaft): Khalil, try to be worthy to step into his footsteps....

[14:45] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): So I think he was not the norm.

So that is my opinion of what the geographers and mapmakers of Gor likely were.

Tarl was a sort of everyman hero

 SO yes he had some geographer at heart

[14:45] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Maps of the city are to be kept by authorized Scribes and Warriors only. Such authorizations may be obtained from the Administrator, the High Council, the Praetor or the head of the caste of Scribes. Any man or woman found in possession of a map of the city without such authorization is subject to arrest and the charged with treason.

[14:46] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): So our builder approached me and asked that she make a nice map of Vonda so people could arrive and easily find their way around and my reaction was "Not good."

 I read her that law and she agreed she wouldn't.

[14:48] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): How to make them .

[14:49] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): things normally found at 600m or more are not in the view, things like OOC markets and dance floors.

Now you can use a screen shot command, which will be unique to your computer, to catch that image. Then use your viewer camera.

Save to your computer...

[14:49] BB Arliss (busybee.ashbourne) is online.

[14:49] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): It can be converted then into a JPEG

I would use the camera settings to cycle through the various times of day until I got the best picture, Firestorm is my viewer of choice.

[14:51] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): \usually the cover of the gorean Novel the city is featured in.

I will sharpen the definition.

I have found that white and bright green make the best colors for labeling.

[14:52] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): So in some cities I would walk right up to the scribe tower and volunteer my services, and was accepted, like in Tyros, by Ubar Galahad. So I worked as a geographer paid by the scribes of Tyros. But then Tyros went to war with the Torvaldslanders and I a was made a spy!

 Then I was paid to not get caught.

[14:53] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): And I had props I used to make my activities noticeable to those that would look. So I would live and work in the cities I was mapping while mapping them. I would either find a place to sit, usually a tavern and sketch pad....or I would walk around with a book and quill pen in my had as I searched for the hidden treasures of a city.

[14:57] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Based on questioning at the last session of this, he would live among the people for a few days and wander around, the only time he was ever caught is by a kajira, but he would pay at the in or stay on the ship if the city allowed he. He also mentioned he get his girls swim hud in case they had to make a quick exti

[14:57] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): exit

[14:58] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Fascninating. And that is all there is about map making

[14:58] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): If there are any questions, I will try to answer them

[14:58] Freya Hedwig (sparklingjewelri) is online.

[14:58] Drew Barnard: .-'`'-.HAPPY BIRTHDAY SEXY ISAAC.-'`'-.

[14:59] Drew Barnard: .-'`'-.HAPPY BIRTHDAY SEXY ISAAC.-'`'-.

[14:59] Hermes (prinzensaft): well. I'd say there is a lot more to say, but thanks for that presentation of ... what was his name?

[14:59] Drew Barnard: lol ... sorry .. the same command seems to trigger two different things

[14:59] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): it looks like more than one person. Arelius Barbosa

[14:59] Kati Evans: Next on the schedule is the 5 pm class on the schedule, which I will be teaching for Abraham. This is the same class that he taught at noon. ...   Then first up tomorrow is My class at 9 am Ask A Magistrate Anything, bring your questions.

[15:00] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): Jarvis Quan

[15:00] Drew Barnard:            (`'•.¸¸(`'•.¸ ♬  ¸.•'´)¸.•'´)

[15:00] Drew Barnard:    ♫(`'•.¸:•.•:*¨*☆☆*¨*:•.•:¸.•'´)♫

[15:00] Drew Barnard:        ,.´:*     APPLAUSE !!!!     *:´.,

[15:00] Drew Barnard:  ☆ (¸.•'´:•.•:*¨*☆☆*¨*:•.•:`'•.¸) ☆

[15:00] Drew Barnard:            (¸.•'´(¸.•'´ ♬  ´`'•.¸)`'•.¸)

[15:00] Hermes (prinzensaft): thank you

[15:00] Brynhildr (gaffsin) is online.

[15:00] Davor O'Donnell (davoroflaura): great history lesson, thank you.

[15:00] Astary Pendragon:      *•.¸('*•.¸ ♥ ¸.•*´)¸.•*

[15:00] Astary Pendragon: .•*♥¨`•APPLAUSE!•´¨♥*•.

[15:00] Astary Pendragon:      ¸.•*(¸.•*´ ♥ `*•.¸)*•.¸

[15:00] ꝀȺɌ (karisima.stein): That was great, Trygg.

[15:00] Kati Evans: Thank you so much.

[15:01] ƈɨʟɨӼ Ӽʊռ (xunfu): thank you sir

[15:01] Xunfu fr>en: Thank You Sir

[15:01] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran): "Next time I will talk about something I know more about

[15:01] Trygg Tyran (tryggtyran) chuckles

[15:01] Hermes (prinzensaft): And if anyone is interested, there's the prize award ceremony for out erotic art exhibit tomorrow at 8 am, to warm up for Lady Kati's hour

[15:02] Drew Barnard: Khan Hermes, where is the art exhibit?

[15:02] Hermes (prinzensaft): I think we shouldn't forget that maps can also be made of the sky, of the stars, of the solar system. that would be a quite different job than that of making maps of the lands.

[15:03] Hermes (prinzensaft): Overr there... points west.... at the arcades... here I give you a landmark

[15:03] Second Life: prinzensaft gave you Expo.